Martha brings out her copy of “Two Old Women” by Velma Wallis, which tells a profound women’s story. Judy shares a personal experience on the Dan Ranch, watching her elder chop kindling during a blizzard. Martha also talks about the book “Tsunami” an anthology of women writers in Mexico who question traditional definitions of femininity and motherhood. Judy affirms the wisdom of traditional knowledge and we talk about the need for a deeper understanding of spiritual reality and the feminine embodiment, which is often overlooked in favor of dogmatized religions and belief systems.

We also talk about “Tribunal Rising,” which Judy is an editor of. The book documents the 1992 campaign to dismantle the myth of discovery and challenge the New World concept. It highlights the role of women and their allies in the indigenous movement, particularly in the context of the 500th anniversary of Columbus’ arrival. The book serves as a testament to the ongoing struggle for community building, sovereignty, and women’s rightful place within the movement.